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Presented at the Religious Educators Conference Devotional, June 12, 2025

From left, forum members Kaylee Merrill, a seminary principal; John Hilton III, a BYU professor of ancient scripture; and Jenet Erickson, a BYU associate professor of Church history and doctrine; share a laugh during the Religious Educators Conference at Brigham Young University in Provo. Intellectual Reserve, Inc.

ABSTRACT: Elder Clark G. Gilbert moderates a conversation with Jenet Erickson, John Hilton III, Nate Peterson, and Kaylee Merrill about creating classrooms that activate agency, foster preparation, and deepen discipleship. This panel discussion explores how teachers can invite learners to take responsibility for their own spiritual and intellectual growth. The panelists emphasize that effective teaching involves more than delivering content—it means engaging students in meaningful participation that connects learning to lifelong covenant discipleship in Jesus Christ. The discussion highlights practical ways to cultivate diligent, Spirit-led learning.

KEYWORDS: agency · religious education · diligent learning · lifelong discipleship · Teaching in the Savior’s Way

Elder Clark G. Gilbert. Thank you, Elder Meredith. What a powerful message. And if you don’t know Elder Meredith, I hope you could feel his strength and conviction.

I’m going to set up a topic we’re going to discuss here in just a minute. And I want to go to something Elder Meredith said: How we teach matters. It’s clear from his remarks [in the opening session], and I think we all know this, that an effective teacher makes such a difference in the lives of our students and in the way they learn. But how we do this really matters. Elder Christofferson referenced this last night [in his worldwide devotional for religious educators]; Elder Meredith mentioned it again today.

We’ve asked you to come to this set of workshops having read and reviewed Teaching in the Savior’s Way, the section called “Invite Diligent Learning.” So much in that [section] requires us to invite students to take responsibility for their learning.

Some of you have heard this story before, so I apologize. But I want to share this story because it’s been poignant for me. In the Charles Hotel in Cambridge, Massachusetts, every third hotel room has a painting hanging in it that shows a chalkboard and a professor at the chalkboard drawing pictures of himself. And it said, “Doug liked his own lectures,” and all he’s doing is drawing himself over and over for the students. And sometimes in our love—and really sincerely in our love for our students—we want to share with them things that are so profound to us personally, but sometimes that can get in the way of them having the opportunity to act and invite their own learning.

I remembered in the same season I had spent four years of my life studying one topic, and I wrote a case study on a company called Knight Ridder that became a course material at the Harvard Business School. I was the author of the case study; and [in] my first year teaching, I think eight different faculty taught my case. At the end of the year, we get data on how the case performed relative to all the other cases. And as I looked at the data, for me, it was the second worst case of the semester, and I was the author of the case. For everyone else, it was in the top five.

So what was going on? Why was the case study that I wrote, that I spent four years studying, the second-to-last-performing case of the whole semester for me and in the top five for everyone else? What do you think was going on? And I’m just going to ask the group, What do you think was going on? I don’t know if we have microphones, so I’m going to go somewhere close. Rosemary, can I just call on you? Why was my own case taught by me such a low-performing case? And don’t say, “Because you’re a really bad teacher, Clark.”

Sister [Rosemary]. Maybe you were explaining more and letting them think about it less.

Gilbert: Yes, that was absolutely part of it. Any other thoughts? What was I doing wrong to have that case perform so poorly?

Sister. Maybe it wasn’t applicable to the students.

Gilbert. OK. It might not have been applicable to the students. Or maybe even more problematic: what I chose to find really important might not have been applicable to the students. The next semester, one of my colleagues said, “Clark, this case teaches itself. You just need three great questions and you’re overcomplicating it. You know too much about it, and it’s going past the students.” By the way, I [later] used his teaching plan—with a little bit of frustration, frankly—and immediately the case shot back into the top quartile.

Sometimes our own expertise and knowledge, if it gets in the way of inviting students to learn [on their own], can be a hindrance. And it doesn’t mean that knowledge shouldn’t be drawn [from the teacher’s expertise]. But is it being drawn in a way that invites diligent learning? Today I’d like to have a panel discussion with four great teachers who do this well. [The panel topic will be:] “How do we invite students to take responsibility for their learning?” I’m going to invite them up here to come join me for this panel, and I’ll introduce each of them.

Next to me is Kaylee Merrill. She’s the seminary principal at East High in Salt Lake City, Utah. Next to her is John Hilton, a professor of ancient scripture at BYU. Next to him is Jenet Erickson, a professor of Church history and doctrine at BYU. And next to her is Nate Peterson, a religion faculty professor at BYU–Idaho.

I’d like to start our discussion today and go right to Elder Christofferson’s talk last night. We looked at his talk and we knew the subject coming into this panel, and we talked about it as a group getting ready for this. [Elder Christofferson] made a direct connection to taking responsibility for learning and lifelong discipleship—not just discipleship but lifelong discipleship.

I’m going to start with Sister Erickson. And as you look at that question, how are those two things related? What did you take from Elder Christofferson’s talk last night? And how should that inform the way we teach?

Jenet Erickson. Thank you, Elder Gilbert. It’s wonderful to be with all of you inspiring teachers. When I first started teaching at BYU—just before I started—Elder Richard G. Scott, that masterful teacher, came and gave a presentation at Education Week. And he shared something striking to me that I had not understood before, that I carried into the classroom that semester. He talked about the importance of life being a quest to be taught by the Lord through his Spirit. That is why we are here. And then he said, “Anytime a teacher invites student participation and a student raises their hand to respond, they signal to the Lord Jesus Christ their desire to learn.” And last night, as we were hearing Elder Christofferson talk about the power of agency, I was reminded of a recent devotional given at BYU–Idaho where this remarkable teacher taught that the power is in them—the language you used, Elder Gilbert. We recognize that the power of God, the power of the adversary, the power within individuals is to demonstrate a willingness to access—to give access—to the Lord for their lives.

That is what I want to invite in my students: their yearning to let the Lord have access to their lives because he is the power to change. He is the power to grow. So that happens in a hundred million ways. You can hear President Packer say a testimony is found in the sharing of it. In that process, we experience the power to have the hastening of his work in our own lives, and we experience his changing and converting influence ignite. It activates—in the language of Elder Christofferson last night—it activates the power to allow Jesus Christ and his influence into our lives.

Now, I am still learning how to do this. I’ve been so grateful for mentors to come into my class and say, “Jenet, try this, try that.” And in every case, what they’re inviting me to do is have the students activate their agency in discovering, in engaging, and then they can feel the Holy Ghost. I can feel, as they feel, the Holy Ghost bear witness to them in a deeply personal way of the truth that they need in their lives. That sets them on a path of acting with agency to be lifelong disciples.

Gilbert. Beautiful. And I think what you’re anchoring on is there’s something about personal action—that activation of agency—that is connected to this. Other thoughts? Taking responsibility for our learning. Why does that create lifelong discipleship? Any of the panel?

John Hilton III. Maybe I can share an analogy I use with my students sometimes. It’s not a perfect analogy—but I’ll bring out a piece of raw wool and I’ll say, “This is like the scriptures that we’re discussing today.” And let’s suppose that I teach this incredible lesson where I’m sharing all these wonderful insights. I’ve given you lots of wool. It feels nice. You put it on your head, and then you walk out the door; the wind blows, and it’s going to fall off.

So, what has to happen is the student has to comb and card the wool. They’ve got to spin it into thread, and then it can become a wool coat can’t blow away when the student walks out.

I share that analogy partly as a reminder to myself that I’m not really in the business of handing out raw wool. I want students to have the coats, and they have to do that work for themselves.

Sometimes we place so much importance on what we say, and it’s hard because I know as teachers we’ve got lots of great things to say. But for the students to really get it inside their hearts they have to act. It has to move from their heads to their hearts. And so helping students act is really the only way they can become lifelong disciples of Jesus Christ.

Gilbert. So, John, you want to get something more refined than the raw wool. Why do they have to refine it and not just you?

Hilton. It’s because in the process of acting, that’s when they get it for themselves. So, if I’m just telling and telling and telling, that’s just putting it on them. And it’s easy for me as a teacher to feel like I am doing such a great job.

I am really pasting. I’m pasting it on them. But to get [it] inside, you have to act. There’s just no other way. OK.

Gilbert. �����ٱ�—

Nate Peterson. Elder Gilbert, just on that point, Elder Christofferson took it to that level, right? I mean, who knew agency was such a big deal? It’s kind of that character in a movie that you’ve seen in the background all along from the beginning. And what if agency is the answer—that it’s there in the beginning—that’s what he said. Agency. Right. Progress requires agency, and then agency requires truth. And I can be teaching truth in a lesson.

But that’s what he said. That’s one of the ways Satan attacks it. I think sometimes he’s OK if we teach them truth. But Elder Christofferson said it’s that second attack that we need to overcome, where we invite them to use their agency. So I can teach a great lesson; I can testify of the truth, but then to activate that agency—it’s that next level where I give them an invitation to engage, to become an agent and let them use that agency that they’ve had from the beginning.

So that progress requires agency. Agency requires truth, and truth requires an invitation, which brings us back to progress.

Gilbert. Excellent. Kaylee, anything you’d add?

Kaylee Merrill. I love the connection that Elder Christofferson made last night. To add to that, he took it to covenants. Because what is a lifelong disciple? It’s someone who makes and keeps covenants. So, we’re asking our students to exercise agency inside the classroom, outside the classroom, so that when it comes time, they realize how to use their agency to make and keep covenants for the rest of their lives.

Gilbert. Beautiful. I loved when he said covenants are individual. They require action, and that’s the ultimate measure of a disciple.

To our audience, I hope you’ve been thinking about the same question. I’d like to spend just one minute having you reflect on that question: What is the relationship between taking responsibility and specifically creating lifelong discipleship? Why is that so important?

Elder Christofferson said the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve have been teaching this in mission leader seminar. They’ve been teaching it to youth advisers. They’re emphasizing it to us as religious educators.

What is that connection? Personal responsibility for learning and lifelong discipleship.

Spend a minute. Write down what you think that connection is. What did you hear last night? What are you hearing now? What other thoughts do you have? We’ll just pause the panel for one minute while you write down some thoughts on this.

[Pause in the discussion]

Now I’m going to ask you in groups of two or three, depending on how you’re configured. If you’re at home and you’re not with someone next to you, find someone you can share this with. But share with someone next to you what you felt; and we’ll do that up here on the panel.

[Inaudible discussion from crowd]

Let’s come back together. Someone who felt impressed to share something on this topic, would you just stand up and share it with the group. We’ll just take a couple here. Cami Anderson, I’m just going to cold call on you. Thank you.

Cami Anderson. Thank you, Elder Gilbert, for this opportunity. Well, Yvonne and I were just talking about that daily discipleship that Elder Christofferson talked about. How, as we help our students see, it helps them continue in their faith and discipleship and through the trials of life. And it’s more than just reading their scriptures or saying their prayers in times of difficulty, but they’re able to do it when they face very difficult trials, and they keep their focus on the Savior. And they realize that no matter what their faith is in him, he’ll help them through whatever challenges they have to face.

Elder Clark G. Gilbert: I love that. And I love the idea of the trial as the framing. Like if we ask ourselves: will they remember this when it’s tough in their life? To Brother Hilton’s point: will this wool just blow off them? Or will it have something they’re carrying with them?

Other thoughts? Please, someone raise their hand and volunteer. Yes, right there next to you.

Brother. This has been something I thought about my whole career. Elder Bednar gave a talk, “Seek Learning by Faith,” when I was a young seminary teacher. And he said that so often we talk about teaching by the Spirit, but we don’t do enough talking about what it means to learn by faith. He taught us from 2 Nephi 33 that the Spirit can take the word of God unto the heart, but whether or not it goes into our hearts depends on us. And we have to act in faith to get that into our hearts. And that we as teachers are not just in the business of distributing fish. We’ve got to teach them how to fish. That the greatest learnings of life are caught, not taught.

Ever since then, that’s been a very impactful message to me. I’ve likened it to us as teachers—our job isn’t just to get in front of the class and exercise in front of them and show them what we do to lift weights. That’s not going to make them stronger. We’ve got to invite them to act. They’ve got to do their own push-ups. They’ve got to do their own work so that they can get the strength from the experience that will then carry them forward as lifelong disciples, and they’ll have the strength to face the trials and challenges they will.

And so, anyway, ever since that talk by Elder Bednar, I’ve thought about that—that it really is our responsibility to invite them to act in faith so that they can have the strength to face the challenges.

Gilbert. And in your thinking, that’s the connection to lifelong discipleship. The ability to act in class during the semester is going to carry over when you’re not there.

Brother. Exactly.

Gilbert. OK. Thank you. Maybe one more comment. Yes, Brother Bolingbroke?

Brother Bolingbroke. When I was an early-morning coordinator, I had a teacher who was a teacher of the year in the medical school at the University of Nevada, Reno, and we were talking about RPA—readiness, participation, application.

Eventually he said, “At the end of the day, Brother Bolingbroke, this is an elbow. And we can discuss and participate, but this is an elbow, and it’s always going to be an elbow. I’m an anatomy teacher. We can’t talk and share—” But I asked him this question—which is what Nate said—there’s this balance between teaching truth and having them apply. I said, “But don’t your students learn better when they wiggle their elbow? They know how it works? They can see all the ligaments?”

And I think sometimes in religious education, there are ways that they can experience it themselves. They’ll remember the elbow a lot better if they hurt it, or if they’ve injured it, or if it’s become of interest to them. And so, as teachers, we declare to them that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, and the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of his children, but they have to discover that. And if we just teach the truth without working that elbow, then the wind blows it right off them.

Gilbert. Beautiful. Thank you. I hope you’ll keep thinking about this question, because sometimes when I’ve had discussions with teachers about the importance of engaging students, they view it as obligatory. They don’t want to be labeled a lecturer, and the discussion goes into technique immediately and doesn’t anchor on “Why do we do this? What is the connection between this form of engagement and personal lifelong discipleship?”

And I invite you to keep thinking about that [question], even as we move now to talking about some teaching approaches that help our students. Please keep coming back to this more elevated purpose—why we’re doing this in the first place.

Now, one of the ways we invite diligent learning is to ask students to come prepared. And we in preparation for today’s session asked you to read “Invite Diligent Learning” from Teaching in the Savior’s Way and “The Power Is in Them” address that I gave in January; attend Elder Christofferson’s devotional and reflect on these two questions—In what ways did the Savior invite diligent learning in those he taught? How can I more effectively help those I teach to take responsibility for their learning?

That was the preparation assignment. How many of you did at least two of those activities coming into here? OK, how do we do this? How do we invite students to come ahead of a learning experience and be prepared for that? What thoughts do you have from the panel?

Peterson. I think Elder Gilbert is taking that step back. Like it’s great—you know, like John was teaching—it’s great if they read for my class, and it’s great if they read and then I give them a good grade. But [it’s] even better if they develop the habit of daily scripture study.

So, if I can zoom out and say, “What am I asking them to prepare for? Why am I asking them to prepare?” Like Elder Meredith has taught us—you look down that road. Discipleship requires discipline.

So what I’m really asking them to do is not just read for my class so they get a good grade, but read their scriptures so they can hear the voice of the Lord. Hear the Spirit. It’s great if they read it for a month for a semester in my class, but even better if they’ll start a habit—this streak, you know, just trying to read a little bit every day, even if it’s for preparing for my class. That’s my opportunity to invite the use of agency. This is “Yes. I want you to read here, but I want you to read forever because it’s the word of God. It’ll bring light into your life. And that’s how you’ll feel the Spirit—that’s how you’ll hear the word of God,” which helps them after my class.

Gilbert. Brother Peterson, I love this because you’re connecting preparation right back to lifelong discipleship. And it’s actually going to help us in Tuesday’s class. But you’re saying, “I’m trying to create a pattern of coming prepared throughout a student’s life.” And this is one of the reasons we invite preparation ahead of a learning experience.

Peterson. Because they’ll need that in Sunday School. They’ll need that in elders quorum and Relief Society. We don’t just want them to read for the religion classes. We want them to prepare for sacrament meetings. We hope they go to the temple prepared. It’s a pattern of preparation, of lifelong discipleship.

Gilbert. Beautiful. Other thoughts?

Erickson. Elder Gilbert, I was thinking—it’s so beautiful to hear, �����ٱ�—I was thinking how much I want them to know that Jesus Christ yearns to help them, that he literally stands at the door and knocks and wants to be part of their lives. And so some of that requires me preparing them to see the relevance of what we’re talking about—why this story matters for them; why their questions are actually answered in the truths here; why the deepest yearnings of their hearts, the power to change and grow and be healed, and all the things they yearn for, are actually answered right here in this process.

But that requires me to believe that about myself and them and then helping them understand the relevance for their lives—that Jesus Christ isn’t just about them learning anything. His yearning is to personally pour out truth and help and healing and power for them through what we do today in class and their preparation for it and how they’ll act afterward.

Gilbert. You know, as I’m listening to you talk, I always think: well, we’re going to cover this reading in class. Please read it before class. But you’re suggesting something I hadn’t thought of, which is if I can get them to think of its relevance, then the class discussion is going to be more impactful. That might even shape the question I asked them to think of ahead of time or the reading I give them ahead of time, because I want them to understand why our discussion is going to be important when we meet in the classroom.

John, anything you’d add?

Hilton. I do think that part of this is me as a teacher shifting my paradigm to the importance of my role in helping students study—I think most of us are teaching scripture—so the most important preparation will be reading scripture ahead of time.

A few years ago, President Dallin H. Oaks said, “I think the most important thing we could do as teachers of seminary and institute students would be to connect students with the scriptures and the results of daily scripture study.”

So, if that paradigm is deep in my heart, then it’s not just a side thing that I do. It’s a core part of what I do. How will I help them? And, just to maybe add on to what you both said, part of this is helping students engage with the scriptures before class. And there are lots of techniques that might be as simple as helping students learn different approaches for scripture study.

Sometimes it’s just helping them understand. I had a student this past semester who struggled with reading comprehension. I was teaching a Bible-based class, and in class we talked about how the Church Handbook says that sometimes other Bible translations can be useful in personal study. And we looked at a website that shows different Bible translations. Well, she came back two weeks later and said: “Brother Hilton, I found a Bible translation that’s written at a sixth-grade reading level, and my Bible study has completely changed. Now I understand it.”

And so, if we teach in whatever ways that can help students gain more from their personal scripture study, then they’ll want to do it. If they’re connecting with Jesus Christ, they’ll want to study. It’s not a box they have to check.

Gilbert. You know, that’s beautiful. And I would imagine you all feel that if a student read something ahead of class, the class learning experience would be deeper because of it. Is that a fair assumption?

Hilton. For sure.

Gilbert: One of the things I worry about: there’s a social contract we have with students. If we ask them to come prepared, of course, intrinsically they’re rewarded for that preparation. But if that preparation isn’t used or drawn upon or activated in the class, we’re kind of telling them “You don’t really need to prepare to come to my class.” It’s “I know I put it on the syllabus, but it didn’t really matter that you prepared.” And that can unravel the culture.

You said I’m building a habit of daily preparation. But Nate, if they don’t have a chance to activate and use and be benefited from their preparation, what does that do to their motivation to come prepared to class?

Peterson. And I think that’s where it ties in the agency and the discipleship—that I’m inviting them. You know, that ties into other things that we’ll discuss about asking them questions and giving them those opportunities.

So, if I ask them to be a disciple—just like we learn as missionaries, we learn in the Church—there’s follow-up. So classes follow up. Are they getting a chance to practice their discipleship live with their peers?

It’s my testimony and my belief: Do I really believe they need to read their scriptures? And like John was saying, why? Because I believe God can talk to me. I believe that if I read scriptures, it opens my mind to the Spirit. That I learn more than what’s on the page.

So, if I believe that, then I need to help them learn that—but also do that. I, like you said, believe it makes the class better. Because if the students are reading their scriptures and practicing their discipleship and keeping their covenants, there will be more light in my class. My class will be better because they’re brighter, and I need to let them practice that discipleship. Let them shine in class.

Gilbert. So what does that look like? I mean, I know I believe if they’ve read, they’ll learn more. But how do you validate and activate that preparation in your class?

Jenet, you teach the eternal family course. So the student reads a section from the proclamation, and they go through a prereading—maybe it’s a talk from Elder Christofferson on “Why the family”—how is that preparation going to be used now in your class?

Erickson. One of the things you recommended last year, Elder Gilbert, that’s been really powerful is to have the students write in class. And I had them actually have to share their feelings with paper and pencil this last semester. And any time they’re having to act—whether it’s just in reflection and writing their witness of what they’ve experienced—and it’s really reflecting on what they learned, what the Spirit taught them in that reading of Elder Christofferson’s talk, for example. And then when they share with one another and it is, as you all know, it’s the most beautiful thing to have the Spirit of the Lord witness to them as they are testifying to us in class, of how that truth has taught them. And then they know—because they’ve experienced—He wants to enlighten my life, and this is the way that it happens, and I’ve experienced it, and I’ve borne witness of it here in class.

So whether that’s sharing in small groups—even if those who don’t like to share so much can just write it down. I get the most beautiful responses from them as they have felt the Spirit of the Lord teach them what an answer—give them an answer that they needed—and then they can bear witness to their other fellow students of that. So it’s real, that discipleship. Experiencing it in class is real from the preparation that they’ve done.

Gilbert. Now, I love what you said, but to be fair, I shared that with you. But I observed that our dean of BYU does that in his classes, and we team taught last year, so that’s where I picked that up from. I’ve never done that in my own class. But it’s very effective, Scott. Kaylee, let me ask. These three have an unfair advantage.

Merrill. Yes.

Gilbert. They grade their religion classes. We don’t grade seminary classes. How do you get seminary students to want to come prepared? Which I hope would be an intrinsic benefit to our students we grade.

But they all have this unfair advantage over you where they have a stick. You know, what’s the carrot for preparation? And can you really get a seminary student to come early in the morning, with so much going on, prepared for a seminary class?

Merrill. I think there’s a lot that we have to change. I think we need to be willing to change. If we’re going to accomplish what Elder Christofferson taught us last night. There’s got to be change in our culture, in our classrooms. And I think the number-one thing is what you mentioned. We have to have specific and significant time built into our classes where students are sharing what they have prepared, where students are playing a part of the teaching process. And I think it needs to be different every day. But there has to be this sense that when they are coming to class they know there’s going to be responsibility put on them. And if they didn’t come prepared, that they feel that gap in their experience.

And there are plenty of ways to do that. But I think one change that we need to make—last night, Elder Christofferson said doing this will require well-prepared teachers to engage well-prepared students, and we have to change the way we’re preparing. If you’re preparing your lessons the day of or even the day before you teach them, that’s not enough time for you to help your students prepare. We have to be prepared early on, before, so that we can in the class, in two or three classes, be ready to share with our students what’s to come and what they need to do.

Gilbert. I love this idea of well-prepared teachers working with well-prepared students. I will note when Elder Christofferson said that there were some giggles in the room. And is this realistic? Can we really expect this out of a sixteen-year-old seminary student?

Merrill. I strongly believe that if we hold these students to a higher standard, they’ll rise to them. I think of the story you shared in “The Power Is in Them” about the missionaries. If we’re not seeing our students at a higher standard, they’re not going to live it. And this is what the Lord is asking of us. We need to have faith and trust in the Lord and in our students. That if we change the culture, and we’re strong and consistent with it, they’ll rise to that occasion. Because we know in life they’re going to have to rise. So we need to show them how to do that in the classroom.

And it’s not going to be easy. And we are going to see some failure along the way. But if we’re consistent, I do think it’s possible.

Gilbert. So high expectations help some of the skeptics out there who say you cannot get people going to John’s class. They say: “Yes, he’s going to put some wool on my head. I can just show up.”

Practically, how can we do this? What are, even from those of you who have the stick, what are some carrots that have worked for you to encourage preparation?

Hilton. I love what Kaylee’s saying, and it’s hard because it just means I have to allocate time in class to do it. So, if I use my stick to say before class, “I want everyone to write a paragraph of something that you learned.” Well, that means that in class, I need to call on three or four students and have them share what they learned. And then that can’t just be a sideline. I have to be flexible in my lesson to build on it. I have to wind up saying less and making room for the students to say more.

Erickson. I heard this wonderful teacher last night tell me—Faith Spencer, who teaches in Roosevelt, Utah—she described the advantage of having students every day in seminary that had been helpful to her. But she said she found that if she knew two days in advance what she was going to be teaching, she invited a couple of them—she would extend the invitation to prepare or think about it to all of them. But then she’d reach out to a couple of them and say: “I know you have had some feelings or experience about this. Do you mind tomorrow coming prepared to share about it?”

And she said what was powerful is, as they testified, the other students wanted to be part of that. They wanted to have experienced that as well. And so, for the next time, there were others who had seen the power of it in their fellow students and wanted to participate too, and bear their own witness, bear their own experience and share that.

So how wonderful these seminary teachers that are so creative about how to engage a fourteen-, fifteen-, sixteen-year-old in that process of learning is inspiring to me.

Gilbert. I love the idea, and there are some students who are shy, for whom participation is difficult. And a little preparation—not only is the signal to the rest of the class, “Hey, someone’s been thinking about this”—but it can also bring someone in who didn’t know or might not have been willing to participate.

Let me go to that next question: participating, teaching what you’re learning, engaging with others in the in the classroom setting. How do you help students learn from their peers in a classroom setting? What do you do?

Hilton. One thing I think is really important is to help students understand why I’m asking them to share.

You mentioned earlier that sometimes it can almost, as an instructor, be a box to check. I don’t want to be a lecturer, so “everyone talk to your partner for thirty seconds.” But if I really, clearly explain to students that—just like revelation is distributed amongst us—personal experiences are distributed among us. And there might be a student coming in right here, and she has a question on her heart. And I do not have the experience that can really speak to her. But you do. And so, if you’ll be prayerful and come to class not just thinking, “What will Brother Hilton give me?” but “How can I contribute?” The Spirit can inspire you to share the experience that she needs. And then students see that why—“We’re not just doing this because we have to.”

And even at the end of class—because I think sharing is not just inside of class—I might say at the end of class, look, there are forty students here, and let’s say we each know ten people. So collectively we know four hundred people. And there’s probably a few of them that really need to hear what we’ve been talking about today. So as you leave, will you be prayerful and consider who in your circle needs to experience what you’ve experienced today? Then that sharing can take place outside the classroom.

Gilbert. Beautiful. Other thoughts?

Merrill. I think one thing that, as I’ve been preparing and studying, I found a connection—there’s a section in Leading in the Savior’s Way about agency. The Savior respects and honors our agency. And there’s a line in there that’s really been sticking with me. It says, “Additionally, provide clear expectations, sufficient training, time, and space for others to act for themselves.”

I think we can set up our classes in a way that the students know what they’re supposed to do. Like you said, they know why we’re doing it, but then we give them that time and space to be able to express for themselves what they’re thinking, what they’re feeling, what they’re learning.

Gilbert. I love this idea of giving space, and sometimes that’s how you structure your class. It also is just after a question. The easiest way to discourage further participation in a classroom discussion is to ask a question, don’t allow time for it to be answered, and then answer it yourself.

And you know, every student just learned Brother Gilbert is going to bail us out and we don’t have to say anything. And that long, pregnant pause of waiting—they’re only going to go through that once or twice, and then someone’s going to help you out. And this is really important—students can do this.

I remember when I was at BYU–Idaho and we were rolling out the BYU–Idaho learning model. I was serving in a stake presidency, and we had a stake Relief Society president who said, “Well, I’m going to do this lesson every week in ward conferences,” during, I think, the third hour then. And I said, “Oh, these students are going to want”—and I watched her try to teach once, and she just wanted to lecture for fifty-five minutes to these BYU–Idaho students.

And then the most amazing thing happened: People started raising their hands, even when a question wasn’t answered, because they’d been in BYU–Idaho classrooms where over and over again they were asked to engage and participate. They couldn’t stand to sit there for fifty-five minutes and listen to this lecture.

And the students kept raising their hands, but she wasn’t calling on anyone. So the students started raising their hands and then just talking, and she thought, “What is going on with these students at this university?” And finally I said: “They are used to being engaged. You have to let them do that, and your lesson will go deeper, but you’re going to have to cut back some of your material to allow them to do that.” So this pattern of giving students time—and I love your “create space”—is really important.

Now look, some people out there—and I know even really good, thoughtful, loving teachers—are saying, “You guys are crazy. You’re asking us to run a free-for-all,” you know? And it’s like, “Oh, everyone talk. Elder Gilbert’s going to pair up and share your great insights again. And we won’t even know if anyone’s learning.”

And, Nate, how do you make sure—because it would be a mistake to interpret my opening story about my case study that I wrote, that my background and expertise didn’t matter. It got in the way because I wouldn’t let students learn. But it should matter to take us deeper. I should be using that depth to go deeper than I could if I just said, “Everyone pair up, and that’s all we’re going to do today.” How do you make sure a participant-centered classroom isn’t fluffy and unstructured and really just a free-for-all?

Peterson. I think, like you mentioned, Elder Gilbert, sometimes we come to these—and so you’re saying, “Don’t lecture.” Sometimes we swing the other side, you know, we just bring the bag of peanuts, throw them all over the floor, and just let the monkeys go wild. That’s what class becomes.

So he’s just telling us to talk. And it’s easy to get students to talk sometimes just, What’s on your feed, what’s happening? But I think it brings this discussion together if we’re looking for discipleship. You know, these are anchors. We’re looking for agency.

Then, like Kaylee said, it’s in my planning that I need to plan with purpose. And just to steal what you said, three compelling questions that I think if I start planning with purpose. So I don’t just want them to talk, and I don’t just want them to talk about scriptures, and I don’t just want them to talk about truth. There needs to be a plan and a purpose.

In the “Strengthening Religious Education” it talks about that we want them to know more deeply and to feel more deeply and to do and be better. And so that’s going to take, like Kaylee said, some planning on my part. Maybe I have three anchor questions, that we’re not just going to talk about anything that, like you said, Jenet, that we go in—here’s a problem. So I might need to introduce the problem—are we bringing in that relevance? Like President Nelson said, we’re all going to die. We’re all going to be judged. We’re all going to be resurrected.[1] So I frame that and then we go into the scriptures. That’s the process. So I’ve created a question that’s now “How are we going to solve this? Oh my word, we’re all going to die.” We go to the scriptures to find answers. You know, that process part.

So it’s going from my head—I’m knowing and understanding—now I’m feeling something. But then it’s got to get to their hands where we start to practice. So then ask compelling questions: What’s our problem? How do we fix it? And what are you going to do about it? If I plan, you mentioned, you know, drafts of questions and going through things, whether we’re talking about elbows or playing pianos or basketball, a teacher doesn’t just say, “Well, practice the piano or watch me shoot free throws.” We believe, right—BYU–Idaho—our mission is building disciples, developing disciples of Jesus Christ. That means practice.

And so in my class, there needs to be practice so that when performance comes, they can be disciples outside of class.

Gilbert. I love what you said—that noise, chatter, people talking doesn’t equate to deep learning. And you’ve said a couple of things. You know, questions that we ask, are they the right questions or are they deepening questions? Have you practiced ahead of time taking that question two or three layers deeper? You mentioned problems. The way we can frame a structure of the class around a specific problem. I think that can deepen it.

Other thoughts on structuring and deepening learning? So not only do we have participation, but we have people thinking and exercising their agency and going deeper.

Merrill. Something you said to me that was kind of a tough pill to swallow was this method of teaching is not more efficient. We’re going to have to cut out some things. We’re going to lose precious time. Like you said, sometimes we want to be the one talking and using that time, but we’re going to have to sacrifice that for something greater: this experience of deep learning. So it might not be more efficient, but it most definitely is more effective. And I think if we can shift that in our brains, it’s going to be easier for us to make that trade.

Gilbert. So I’m going to pull back on some content covering in class. I’m going to go deeper, and it might get messy, but I’m going to keep deepening it as the teacher.

And I remember when we were creating online learning at BYU–Idaho. It wasn’t Brother Bolingbroke—I won’t say who said this to me—but they said, “Oh, President Gilbert, why don’t you just record me speaking, and record my lecture, and we can put that online and they can just watch it?” And I said, “Well, that’s not how we’re going to do this.”

And it’s interesting. If all we do is unilaterally talk, we could just record it and watch it. We could just do what that professor said to me. Record my lecture, and then they don’t even need to come to class because they’re not actually doing anything in class other than listening. We could put all of that in the pre-reading materials. Right? And so there are other ways you deepen learning in your classrooms that help this not just be chatter.

Erickson. Elder Gilbert, I loved as you were just talking, I was thinking of the powerful—that we treasure in the Doctrine and Covenants—“that all may be edified.” And this instruction that all become teachers, in a sense, in the classroom.

And I think, John, we have to come at it from that framing: believing that, as Elder Christofferson clarified, there are foundational truths we are trying to teach in that class every day. There are truths I deeply want them to understand more. And I also recognize his inspiration is spread throughout them, and that I need—that we need—to be edified together by the truth I’m trying to help ground our lesson in.

And so it’s coming back to questions, I think, that help guide their ability to receive revelation around that particular topic and share it with the class. That requires really thoughtful preparation in the questions that are asked. And then they, I think, can experience what it means to be edified together. I couldn’t have done it myself. I could not have taught you what you need to know about this truth myself. Because the truth is spread here through revelation among all of us around this powerful idea.

So I’m anchoring it in those while drawing on how the Spirit teaches them about that principle.

Gilbert. It’s beautiful. I’m going to ask all of you to keep reflecting on this question and come to it—whether it’s in your department meetings or in an in-service meeting. But how do we make sure participant-centered learning is deep learning? How do I structure a classroom so students engage, but I’m pushing them deeper?

And we heard some examples here of questions and deepening questions—problems that are presented to the class. I think a parable is a beautiful example of that, because you’re having to come at it and say, “What does it really mean?” But we’re not going to have the capacity to do this in this large of a setting. I hope this is something all of you will do. Because yes, we do want you to deepen learning by allowing students to participate, but we don’t want this to be fluffy and a bunch of quick responses.

And we invite you to look at ways you can deepen classroom learning by going beyond the first response in a classroom setting. And John, you brought up in our earlier discussion one of the ways Sister Merrill said: give them space. Give—create—space for this to happen. And you said one of the ways to create space is let them ask their own questions. Can you tell just a little more on that?

Allowing time for students to ask questions invites learners to reflect. Intellectual Reserve, Inc.

Hilton. We’ve been talking about our preparing of questions, which I think is great. A personal experience: Many years ago, I was a young, inexperienced teacher teaching about the law of chastity. And I thought it was a great lesson. Why is it so important? How can we live the law of chastity? And toward the end, as I made some space for questions, a student raised her hand and she said, “Well, Brother Hilton, what if a person has broken the law of chastity? Is there still hope for them?” And I’m so embarrassed to say that in my inexperience as a teacher, I was not planning to talk about that question, but it was clearly one of the most important questions that we could talk about that day.

And so, because we made space for her question, some deeper learning took place. And even now, as a more experienced teacher, I could anticipate that. But even the most experienced teacher cannot anticipate every nuance, every experience a student is bringing to class. So, we’ve got to pause sometimes and say:

Gilbert. Where are they?

Hilton. “Process for a moment. What questions do you have?”

Gilbert. What does that look like for you in your classroom? When do you do this? Is it formal? Is it episodic? Is it recurring?

Hilton. I think there are lots of different ways to do it. Sometimes if I want to have a little fun, we’ll put a Google Doc up on the screen and a QR code. Just type in your question anonymously. But often it’s as simple as just pausing and letting students write.

Because if I say “What questions do you have?” Five seconds. There’s no questions. OK, let’s move on. But if I say “Let’s take thirty seconds; just process. What have we been talking about? What questions you have, either from the scriptures or how this applies to your life?” And then maybe sometimes, rather than me answering the questions, we’ll say, ask your neighbor a question and let them respond. There are so many ways that this can help us go to a deeper level.

Gilbert. That’s really powerful. We’re going to cover one last topic, and then I’m going to close with some invitations and follow up. Coming prepared to a learning experience, having a chance then to share what you’re learning—these are opportunities to take responsibility for learning.

A third way that’s discussed in that section we asked you to read in Teaching in the Savior’s Way is to allow students opportunities to apply that learning when they leave your class. What are some ways that each of you do this? And how do you, as you get to the end of class, hope you’ll carry the learning from that lesson beyond that day’s classroom or that discussion?

Merrill. Can I take a little twist on this? As I’ve pondered, I’ve done something similar; but I’m excited this next year to try this.

We talked about preparation, and a lot of what we mentioned was studying the block beforehand. But what if the application was the preparation? What if you knew in two weeks you were going to have a lesson on fasting, and you took five minutes out of a class a couple of weeks before to discuss some things that are making those students hurt inside? And then you invited them: “Will you take a day in the next week to fast about this thing?”

Then when you come to teach about fasting, they’ve already had those experiences. And how much more likely will they be to share in class? And then how much more likely will they be to do it again after class? Because they saw it from their experience, but they also got to share and testify.

And like you said, the testimony is found in the sharing of it. I think that will increase their likelihood of applying after.

Gilbert. I thought that the application could actually be part of the preparation.

Merrill. It doesn’t work perfectly for every principle, but I think you could apply it in a lot of ways.

Gilbert. Other thoughts?

Hilton. Another thought is just—I think you mentioned earlier, �����ٱ�—following up. So this will entail carving out a little more class time to say: “In our previous class we talked about this invitation. What did you do to act upon it?”

If I’m always extending invitations but never following up, it’s kind of like what you said. If I ask a question and then give the answer, students realize quickly, “Oh, he doesn’t really care.” But if I’m consistently following up at the start of a class with “Hey, we talked about fasting” or “We talked about this principle,” students will start to realize, “Oh, this matters. It’s important.”

Peterson. Something I’m still figuring out. And so maybe this could be an invitation. Are we allowed to give homework?

Gilbert. Please.

Peterson. So, you said we’ll extend some invitations. It happened last night. Elder Christofferson—and I think it was four or five times—used the word ownership. You [Elder Gilbert] used the word ownership.

So I went back studying this word. In “Invite Diligent Learning,” it talks about owning. So I’ve been trying to figure it out. There’s the assignment: What’s the connection between discipleship and ownership and why?

And maybe, Elder Gilbert, at the end, maybe you could talk about that—why does that word keep coming up? That if I want them to be disciples—maybe stewardship—that’s our agency. God gave us this gift. Discipleship is what I do with that gift. But we like to own things. We want to own our car. We want to own our house. Ownership, for some reason, keeps coming up with discipleship.

Gilbert. And it comes right from the prophet in that quote—or that Elder Christofferson drew from “Choices for Eternity.” President Nelson says, “I plead with you to take charge of your testimony, work for it, own it, nourish it so that it will grow.” But it’s right—he’s pleading with us and all our young adults to own their testimony.

Peterson. And I think—can I just add to that?

Gilbert: Please.

Peterson. I think that’s what we want them to do after. They come to class and they practice discipleship, but then I want them to own it because I won’t be there in their temple recommend interview. I won’t be there when they’re tempted. I won’t be there when they’re tried.

But if they own truth and own discipleship and own their agency, I think there’s something—and I don’t have it figured out, but it’s something I want to study—that if they can own truth when they leave my class, then I think that’s what you’re asking us to do, is I need to own it. I need to have it.

Gilbert. I’m smiling because I’m listening to him share this: We won’t be with them in all these life choices. I remember my inner-city youth in Boston were all joking around one night: “Yes, every time I want to do something bad, I just have this imaginary image of Clark sitting on my shoulder, saying, ‘You shouldn’t be doing that.’” And, well, he needs to do it because he wants to do it, not because he has an image of his Young Men’s leader telling him not to do it.

We’re going to do something we hadn’t scheduled into this, but John suggested giving space to ask questions. I’m sure some of you are saying: “Oh my goodness, I’ve got to come up with a preparation assignment before each teaching class? And then I’ve got to engage people? I got to have all these questions, and now we got to deepen learning in class. And then I have to have an application?” And I’m sure some of you are going: “Elder Gilbert, I teach Wednesday again, and I teach next week, and I teach next week. How do we do this?” I’m sure many of you have questions for this panel.

I’d like to just take a few minutes and let you ask the panel a few questions I haven’t been able to bring into the discussion. So if you have a question that you’ve thought of as we’re going through this, please stand and ask our panel.

Yes, and I can’t quite see back there. Just say your name.

Sister [Faith Spencer]. Hi, my name is Faith Spencer. I’d like to know how you prepared differently as a panel, knowing that you would be expected to share.

Merrill. Lots of time. I think Elder Gilbert mentioned this in “The Power Is in Them.” If students know they’re going to be expected to share, they’re going to take responsibility. They’re going to step up to the plate and do the work. And that’s how I felt, because I knew I was expected to share.

I took it in a more humble approach of “what do I need to know so that I can share it?” And I learned that’s what I want my students to experience. I want them to have this feeling: “When I go to class today, I can’t just sit there. I’m going to—there’s going to be a time where I’m required to share, and I want to have something to share.”

Gilbert. Thank you. Other questions?

Erickson. Just one thought I was thinking with your question. I was thinking about how I could feel that the Lord wants me to be a more effective teacher and more able to ignite and activate their agency.

And so I was just thinking about a colleague who has students before the class, early in the semester, just take thirty minutes and listen to the Spirit guide them in what they need. And then set goals that they can, through that class, work on and get insight into.

So thinking about this panel, it was like, the Lord loves me. He wants to help me be a more effective teacher. He wants to bless those students. And what a privilege that he would give me the chance to think about and study this. So, in the end, I can act in a different way. And I want my students to have that same powerful experience. This whole class is about the Lord blessing you to be more able to be all you are designed to be, and that’s why he’s giving you this privilege to learn from him here.

Gilbert. Thank you. Another question.

Sister. Is it on? Oh, sorry. So, I am blessed to be part of the adaptive-needs seminary, and I would say that most if not all my students are nonverbal. So how would I apply this to them?

Gilbert. What do you do already?

Sister. We do a lot of—we’ll print off pictures and laminate them and let them choose different things about the lesson. We will get them involved in scripture mastery by having slips of paper, again, that are laminated. And we talk about scripture mastery. We do a lot of sign language–type situations in the classroom. It’s really just a neat experience.

Hilton. I can try to take a stab at that. I don’t have any experience with teaching adapted learning. The experience that I have on my own is I’m preparing for a class this fall, and before being invited to be a part of this panel, about 99 percent of the preparation I’ve been putting into this class is “What will I teach?” It’s all been content focused. And I, as part of this panel, started to change the questions I’m asking—spending more of my prep time thinking about “How can I help students prepare before class? How can I help students act?” And as I’ve taken those questions to Heavenly Father, I’ve received answers.

So even though I do not know the specific answer to this question about adapted learning, I know that Heavenly Father does. And my testimony is that as we’ll take challenging questions like those upwards, we will receive the personalized answers that our students need.

Erickson. It’s that shift—so beautiful—from the teacher, who loves teaching and thinking about “How we can be effective?” to “What is the learner experiencing?” How would music bring the Spirit to them? How would interacting with others in some way bring the Spirit to them?

It’s this focus on what are they experiencing that I have also felt, John. That desire to shift. What are they experiencing in the class?

Gilbert. Did you have something? Oh. Oh, another. Oh, they’re telling me they’re going to turn my mic off here if we don’t wrap up. Let me just close. We’re at the end of our time. We came into this meeting asking you to come prepared thinking about this question: “How can I more effectively help those I teach take responsibility for their learning?”

I would re-extend the invitation I gave earlier. Take a minute coming out of here to record an insight that came to you personally today. And I’m going to just pause. I do think we have a few minutes, so I’m going to pause for one minute. I want you to record one thing you learned today, and it might not have been anything we said. What’s one thing you learned today that you think will help you be a better teacher? Just take a minute and capture that before we conclude.

If you haven’t finished, continue to reflect on this. And please, in the coming weeks, I’ll ask you to do two things with what you wrote down: Share it with someone else and set a goal to improve your own teaching based on the impression you had.

Let me just conclude with this thought: First, I’d like to thank my panelists. They are great teachers, and I’ve learned so much from today and our preparation coming into today. I’d also like to thank all of you. I know so many of you give so much to your responsibilities. I love what Elder Christofferson said last night, that you are literally on the front line of the future of this Church.

As we conclude, I just add my witness that in the Church Educational System we are preparing young people all across the Church to grow and become lifelong disciples. And nowhere does that happen more meaningfully than in the religious education that happens across the Church Educational System, in the seminary class, on one of our campuses, and in an institute class. And you are part of helping take responsibility so that they can become lifelong disciples of Jesus Christ. I know that one of the major reasons the Church invests so much in what we do—and everyone who’s involved in this work—is because they believe this matters. And when President Nelson says, “Do you see what’s happening right before our eyes?,” I hope you feel that seminary enrollment is at a record level across this Church, both the total number of students and the percentages participating.

Enrollment at our universities continues to set records, even at a time when many people aren’t going to college, and institute is at its highest level ever in the history of the Church.

We have a responsibility to help all those individuals who come into our classrooms to take responsibility for their learning. And in the words of President Nelson, we are preparing “a people who will help prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord.”[2]

May we take that stewardship with soberness, humility, and confidence, as the Lord helps us do this with power and strength in our assignments. And I leave that with you in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Notes

[1] Russell M. Nelson, “Choices for Eternity,” worldwide devotional for young adults, May 15, 2022, www.churchofjesuschrist.org.

[2] Russell M. Nelson, “The Lord Jesus Christ Will Come Again,” Liahona, Nov. 2024, 121.